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Ray, when was the last time you tried to breath sitting next to one of those "real race boats" at the starting rope ?????
Posts: 59 | From: North Little Rock, Arkansas, 72120
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quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: If you are going to pour your money and time into a mudsucking garbage pump propelled boat and actually get in it and race it, I would belive you need to keep a constant watch on the below water line parts and configuration just like you would a real race boat with a prop.
ray ray ray, how many times do i need to tell you; it's a nuclear reactor coolant pump propulsion sysem. has nothing to do with mud. ask conklin, he'll enlighten ya..
quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: You definitely need this to be a do it your self project and not depend on an inspector to do it for you.
i'll always agree with this. at the same time, i've never seen an inspector look under a jetboat. there is no "rule" to say no cracks in loader welds. i know that's common sense, "duh" kinda thing. but inspection checklists are based on rule requirements. there -is- a rule that loaders be thru bolted, and nutted on top. so... if the loader is removed for an inspector to examine welds at the time of inspection (which is not required by rule), verifying top nuts isn't possible unless you tie up the inspection line for 15-20 minutes per boat while the guy re-installs the thing. i know a guy that took his reactor coolant pump boat through tech inspection, satisfied inspection, then back in the pits found the bottom of his boat delaminating and falling apart. there's no checklist item for that either... there's also a rule requirement for reactor coolant pump impeller type (alum/bronze/ss). who checks those? again, i've never seen any inspector get under the boat and look. there's a rule requirement for popoff's or ratchets. but if a boat has a popoff, that satisfies the check in the box - but how many inspectors require the racer to operate the popoff during inspection, to verify that it actually opens?
please understand, this is not a knock on anyone that volunteers to take on the inspection responsibility. people do what they're trained to do, checklists are handed down from one generation to the next, slightly modified after something bad happens. or, another rule is installed without a great deal of explanation as to what potential problem is being addressed, so another box to check. i've just been there and done it for several years, and i believe if i'm going to inspect, it will be thorough.
i take full and complete responsibility for the condition of my deal when it goes in the water, regardless of the depth of inspection. but i do appreciate a second set of eyes looking it over, especially if i drag the thing a thousand miles or more down the road to get there...
-------------------- bp Posts: 440 | From: Lake Havasu City, Az 86406
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I have always personally belived if you were going to climb in and race a boat, you needed to do a complete inspection personally. If something has come loose or cracked, the odds are it will break and cause a loss at the best and a crash at the worst. It would be great if jet boats were inspected by a really good jetboater (is that an oxymoron?) and hydros by a really sharp hydro man and so on. Unfortunately, that is often not the case. It would also be nice to have a rack to pull them up on and really check out the underneath. The reality is that inspection is often done on a blacktop parking lot in 100 degree weather with a line of boats waiting impatiently for their turn. Many times the only way you are going to see much underneath is to crawl under the boat. Also keep in mind that the inspectors are unpaid volunteers who are basically trying to help you go racing safely. I too would like to see a review and justification for many of the rules in the book.
-------------------- Ray Neudecker Over The Hill Gang Outboard Racing Posts: 376 | From: Jackson,Tn.38305
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quote:Originally posted by seaweed: Tell us how you really feel Ray.
Damn Ray...I did say "I WISH there was a way"
I do agree it is the drivers responsibility to check these things. My loader was out of the boat 3 weeks before this happened. There was NO visible sign of any cracks. Once the loader was removed from the boat after the crash you could see where the welds did not penetrate. Without having them Magnafluxed every year you may not ever see it coming.
My boat running SE did not have a Ratchet or Pop Off valve. the shoe was .004 below the keel.
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One more thing. It is NOT the responsibility of the tech inspector to make sure EVERYTHING on YOUR boat is safe, only the things that are required by the rule book. You and I should know our boats from top to bottom. If not, be a spectator like me!
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I first met a guy running a jet made friends with him when I spotted the loader bolts missing and the loader all but out of the boat. He had driven an awful long way and was by himself drivin' crewn' and all. But yeah I think it wouldn't hurt for the inspector to just swing under the boat for 10 secs and take a quick look at it Jet hydro or weedeater included.
quote:Originally posted by S/E 292ret.: One more thing. It is NOT the responsibility of the tech inspector to make sure EVERYTHING on YOUR boat is safe, only the things that are required by the rule book. You and I should know our boats from top to bottom. If not, be a spectator like me!
alan, the point i was trying to make is that there are rule requirements applicable to jetboats that are seldom if ever inspected during tech. not saying that's right or wrong, but they are items that have a direct bearing on repeated safe passes. this thread was about the requirement for ME and SE boats to run ratchets or popoffs, neither of which would have helped you in your situation (imo). so, an SE boat that -might- run 90 needs to spend an additional 2k or more to satisfy this rule. to say the least, this rule was established arbitrarily. on the other hand, according to the rules it is apparently ok for SE or ME boats to run aluminum impellers. from reading or talking to any responsible pump manufacturer, the cutoff for aluminum should be 500hp. how many ME, or for that matter, SE jets have 500hp or less? i know i'm a little beyond that number. that's a manufacturer's recommendation, not an arbitrary idea.
i would still like to see popoff operation verified at tech to assure they are in compliance with the rule specs and operational requirements.
-------------------- bp Posts: 440 | From: Lake Havasu City, Az 86406
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Bob, I personally think ALL jet boats should be required have a Ratchet and Pop-Off. Your correct, it would not have helped me but my hospital bill would have covered both and a lot more. I've seen boats loose power at 45mph and turn hard. I understand the cost of this rule would not allow some racers to continue to run, however safety should always come first.
Aluminum impellers should not be allowed in any class. Most RR boats are over 500hp.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: [QB] If you are going to pour your money and time into a mudsucking garbage pump propelled boat and actually get in it and race it, I would belive you need to keep a constant watch on the below water line parts and configuration just like you would a real race boat with a prop.
I own one of those mudsucking garbage pumps and even I think that's funny!! by the way Ray, 1. why does a "real race boat" have to have a prop?
2. I can't speak for anyone else, but we do check our hardware after every pass..
3. I don't know what happend between you and a jet boat, but they must have really got under your skin!!!
4. I would like to invite you to bring your "real race boat" down to Purcell in May to have a chance to take out some frustration on some of our "mudsucking garbage pumps". Come and see what all the fun is about..
Capt. Jack Sparrow a.k.a. Ronnie Hays The Black Pearl T.E. 7771
-------------------- Capt. Jack Sparrow Posts: 217 | From: OKC, OK 73165
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What is the thoughts in the new rule book posted on the net for lucas. ref: page 42/43 rachets or pop off.
Posts: 2 | From: RIVERSIDE CA. 92509
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quote:Originally posted by bp: how many ME, or for that matter, SE have 500hp or less? i know i'm a little beyond that number.
Oooh, oooh, pick me, I'll answer that question.
The original "243"
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quote:Originally posted by wagspe208: BTW.. I have been thrown out of bars, strip clubs, asked to leave weddings, told to leave parties, threatened by fathers, and told to mind my p's and q's. Wags [/QB]
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I think that i have the answer about rachets. seaweed i think is correct rachets are only in the pro and sportsman classes not in the brackets there is no mention in the brackets. all sportsman are 8's and 9's. brackets are 10,and slower no need for pop offs or rachets So dont be running out and buy a rachet or pop off
Posts: 317 | From: COLUMBIA TENNEESSEE
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Capt. Jack, real race boats have props because that was the way God intended the world to work. I used to call jet boats pressure washers until BP told me the proper term was mudsucking garbage pumps. In deference to his superior jet boat knowledge (unbeaten except by clampons)I have tried to describe them in the proper terms. The drivers who consistently go over their equiptment are the ones you see picking up the checks. The only time my wife ever attended a race where I was driving was a local one back when you ran speed brackets. I drove a bass boat for a couple of local brothers I had sold a boat to and blistered a jet boat in the finals. At the take out ramp the driver cursed me and the junky bass boat which had beat his new $40,000 jet boat only by cheating. He claimed I had let out and they couldn't hear it over his motor. Since this was before Wags started turning me into a pacifist, it is possible I may have replied about his being ripped off,ect. He and his so called friends came to my pits with an attitude which rapidly changed upon meeting the 6'8" 350 lb brothers who owned the boat. His friends found some where else they needed to be and he left shortly after. For the last more than 20 years every time I have left for a race my wife warns me to stay away from those jet boaters. My hats off to jet boaters. Think of all of the work and time and money it takes to put together a rig which is quick and consistent using a garbage pump to propell it. 700+hp motors are always an awesome sound for all. Just starting it and rapping the throttle has to be a blast. Life would be different and a lot less fun without jetboaters to rag. Purcell might see a few more clamp ons this year since it is not the same weekend as Poplar Bluff.
-------------------- Ray Neudecker Over The Hill Gang Outboard Racing Posts: 376 | From: Jackson,Tn.38305
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Oh boy Ray,.................you've done it now.
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quote:Originally posted by wagspe208: BTW.. I have been thrown out of bars, strip clubs, asked to leave weddings, told to leave parties, threatened by fathers, and told to mind my p's and q's. Wags [/QB]
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Ray, we look forward to meet you at Purcell. You will meet some friendly and lots of fun jet boaters. You sound like you would be alot of fun at bench racing.....and believe me we have alot of world champion bench racers.......90 days left till Summer Thunder...GO BLOW OR BLISTER..
Posts: 23 | From: Norman,Okla.,73026
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quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: Capt. Jack, real race boats have props because that was the way God intended the world to work. I used to call jet boats pressure washers until BP told me the proper term was mudsucking garbage pumps. In deference to his superior jet boat knowledge (unbeaten except by clampons)I have tried to describe them in the proper terms. The drivers who consistently go over their equiptment are the ones you see picking up the checks. The only time my wife ever attended a race where I was driving was a local one back when you ran speed brackets. I drove a bass boat for a couple of local brothers I had sold a boat to and blistered a jet boat in the finals. At the take out ramp the driver cursed me and the junky bass boat which had beat his new $40,000 jet boat only by cheating. He claimed I had let out and they couldn't hear it over his motor. Since this was before Wags started turning me into a pacifist, it is possible I may have replied about his being ripped off,ect. He and his so called friends came to my pits with an attitude which rapidly changed upon meeting the 6'8" 350 lb brothers who owned the boat. His friends found some where else they needed to be and he left shortly after. For the last more than 20 years every time I have left for a race my wife warns me to stay away from those jet boaters. My hats off to jet boaters. Think of all of the work and time and money it takes to put together a rig which is quick and consistent using a garbage pump to propell it. 700+hp motors are always an awesome sound for all. Just starting it and rapping the throttle has to be a blast. Life would be different and a lot less fun without jetboaters to rag. Purcell might see a few more clamp ons this year since it is not the same weekend as Poplar Bluff.
Ray, first of all thanks for your reply, come look me up in Purcell, I would like to buy you a beer or several.... Second, don't let one snot nose jet boat guy mess it up for the rest of us! trust me (I know its coming from a guy with a jet) not all of us are like that!! The way I see it is I don't care if it's a clamp on, flat or a hydro that beats me is cause I didnt do my job or it wasent my day (even an old blind hog finds an acorn every once and awhile) I damm sure dont race for the money (just ask my wife) I do it cause I love it. I dont care who is in the other lane, I still will give them a load of crap (just ask someone that knows me) I look foward to meeting you in Purcell.. just look for the Pirate flags! I always said this is what winter is for, bench racing and smack talking, at least it gets everybody fired up for spring!!! come on boys (and girls) The jet I have is Heavy and one of the longest ones out there (but you never know, it might be quick!) lets get them ready for May and make Purcell a great turn out!!! see ya'll soon! Capt. Jack Sparrow
-------------------- Capt. Jack Sparrow Posts: 217 | From: OKC, OK 73165
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That's better than an info commercial!!!!!!!After that I might have to breakout the "Strangething". Go,blow or blister!!!!!
Posts: 23 | From: Norman,Okla.,73026
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quote:Originally posted by Biged: I think that i have the answer about rachets. seaweed i think is correct rachets are only in the pro and sportsman classes not in the brackets there is no mention in the brackets. all sportsman are 8's and 9's. brackets are 10,and slower no need for pop offs or rachets. So dont be running out and buy a rachet or pop off
ed, seaweed may be right, but if a person wants to run with an org that's following the lodbrs rulebook, he's wrong.
-------------------- bp Posts: 440 | From: Lake Havasu City, Az 86406
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quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: Capt. Jack, real race boats have props because that was the way God intended the world to work.
ray, god only did that because he knew the world would need -something- for the first couple thousand years just to get people outta the caves... then he gave us the jetdrive...
quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: I used to call jet boats pressure washers until BP told me the proper term was mudsucking garbage pumps. In deference to his superior jet boat knowledge (unbeaten except by clampons)I have tried to describe them in the proper terms..
ray, yer still failing... reactor coolant pump. ask conklin, he'll enlighten ya. actually, i've been whipped by anything that floats.
quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: The only time my wife ever attended a race where I was driving was a local one back when you ran speed brackets. I drove a bass boat for a couple of local brothers I had sold a boat to and blistered a jet boat in the finals. At the take out ramp the driver cursed me and the junky bass boat which had beat his new $40,000 jet boat only by cheating. He claimed I had let out and they couldn't hear it over his motor. Since this was before Wags started turning me into a pacifist, it is possible I may have replied about his being ripped off,ect..
couple questions. (1) what exactly was the speed in that speed bracket? (2) do you still have the leather helmet with the ear flaps you would have been wearing???
quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: He and his so called friends came to my pits with an attitude which rapidly changed upon meeting the 6'8" 350 lb brothers who owned the boat. His friends found some where else they needed to be and he left shortly after.. For the last more than 20 years every time I have left for a race my wife warns me to stay away from those jet boaters..
...then you know exactly what it's like for us poor old jetboatdrivers surrounded by a buncha weed whackers... the only thing my wife ever tells me is "it's your hobby so you're supposed to be having fun"... so win or lose, if i ain't having fun anymore, it's time to stay home.
quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: My hats off to jet boaters. Think of all of the work and time and money it takes to put together a rig which is quick and consistent using a garbage pump to propell it. 700+hp motors are always an awesome sound for all. Just starting it and rapping the throttle has to be a blast...
if i had as much dough in mine as some of those whackers cost, i'd be runnin 9s or 8s...
quote:Originally posted by Ray Neudecker: Life would be different and a lot less fun without jetboaters to rag. Purcell might see a few more clamp ons this year since it is not the same weekend as Poplar Bluff..
there needs to be at least one whacker there, and i don't think he'd miss it for anything... but more whacker cash in a pot is always a good thing... where's thurl? somebody told me he wants some of this...
-------------------- bp Posts: 440 | From: Lake Havasu City, Az 86406
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quote:Originally posted by Biged: I think that i have the answer about rachets. seaweed i think is correct rachets are only in the pro and sportsman classes not in the brackets there is no mention in the brackets. all sportsman are 8's and 9's. brackets are 10,and slower no need for pop offs or rachets. So dont be running out and buy a rachet or pop off
ed, seaweed may be right, but if a person wants to run with an org that's following the lodbrs rulebook, he's wrong.
Following the rule book read it under brackets not reguired I beleave that lucas is fixing the reading under pro and sportman look under brackets rachets not mention
Posts: 317 | From: COLUMBIA TENNEESSEE
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BP, Your wrong about the cave/jetdrive thing.
Never figured out why it takes 700-900 horsepower to make a jetboat run 10's and only 300 or so to make a whacker runs 10's.
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quote:Originally posted by wagspe208: BTW.. I have been thrown out of bars, strip clubs, asked to leave weddings, told to leave parties, threatened by fathers, and told to mind my p's and q's. Wags [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by mirage243: BP, Your wrong about the cave/jetdrive thing.
Never figured out why it takes 700-900 horsepower to make a jetboat run 10's and only 300 or so to make a whacker runs 10's.
I think you just hit it on the head most jets only think that there motor makes 700-900 when its really 550-600 and you ob any other time make 375 maybe 400 Now 243 keep him on the ropes backed into the corner now work him over
Posts: 317 | From: COLUMBIA TENNEESSEE
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quote:Originally posted by mirage243: BP, Your wrong about the cave/jetdrive thing.
Never figured out why it takes 700-900 horsepower to make a jetboat run 10's and only 300 or so to make a whacker runs 10's.
Yeah bp....
Jetboats SUCK....
BBBUUUTTT....
when the trophies and jackets are handed out this weekend in Austin for the SDBA High Points Champions and Runner-ups in classes from River Racer up to Top Eliminator...
the ONLY Clamp-On Fish Chopper represented will be Denise Hodges in River Racer. The ONLY other fish chopper propelled boat that will take the stage will be Brian Miller's First-a-Fence in Top Eliminator... Due respect given to those accomplishments.... BUT.....
The other 6 are ALL MUD-SUCKIN'-RAMP-CLUTTERIN'-GARBAGE-PUMP-PRESSURE-WASHER JET BOATS.... !!!
Winter Bench Racin' is fine, but in the words of Tom Cruise....
"... SHOW ME THE MONEY....!!!!..."
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ray ray ray, how many times do i need to tell you; it's a nuclear reactor coolant pump propulsion sysem. has nothing to do with mud. ask conklin, he'll enlighten ya.. 
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Capt. Jack, real race boats have props because that was the way God intended the world to work.![[Rock Band]](graemlins/csmiley19.gif)
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The only time my wife ever attended a race where I was driving was a local one back when you ran speed brackets. I drove a bass boat for a couple of local brothers I had sold a boat to and blistered a jet boat in the finals. At the take out ramp the driver cursed me and the junky bass boat which had beat his new $40,000 jet boat only by cheating. He claimed I had let out and they couldn't hear it over his motor.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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